Originally by: Bellum Eternus

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: Joie Mains

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if u just had read op and then your reply ...

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I did read the OP. The OP just said to simply remove Nanos and Istabs (but oddly left OD's? I presume this is an oversight). Removing them will remove the ability of Minmatar ships (especially minie ships, since this is how their tank is designed) to avoid damage.

-Liang

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What ships are these, besides the Vagabond, that are designed specifically around going ultra fast to avoid damage? I mean other than all the normal ship classes that the other three races have as well that depend on this play style?

Without speed mods the Vagabond is still plenty fast enough to avoid damage and speed tank. The rest of the Minmatar ships are not designed to be speed tanked from the outset. That's why they have tanking bonuses instead of speed bonuses.

Mael and Cyclone? The only good tanks? Sleip and Claymore have *great* tanks. Hurricane tanks just fine (for a tier2 bc). As far as I know, the Rupture doesn't speed tank. The Stabber is plenty fast with an MWD, Rifters don't speed tank, the Phoon and Tempest are great with armor tanks. Haven't seen a speed tanked Temp um, ever.

So I don't really get where 'all' the Minmatar ships are 'designed' to be speed tanked. Additionally, I wouldn't mind the base speed of each Minmatars ship being increased slightly, to give them a clear speed advantage over the other three races, if speed mods were removed. Right now the other three races can be speed tanked with very comparable results to Minmatar ships, thereby reducing the whole idea of speed being a Minmatar trait and it's focus of play.

The only defence against speed ships are other speed ships. If you're using a Huginn or Rapier, of course they're going to be SPEED FIT in order to catch the speed fit targets anyway. polycarb rigs and i-stabs are the order of the day.

The main issue as I see it is that we have BCs and cruisers (again, I'm not referring to the Vagabond here, I *agree* it should be fast) that walk all over interceptors and dictors from a speed perspective. This is silly. Why use an inty when a Vaga will tackle just as well? Or a Sleipnir? Or a nano Ishtar? Speed fit ships are 100% immune to damage from any sort of normal ship (by normal I mean anything other than another nano ship or a Rapier/Huginn). If there was another form of tank in the game that gave it's user 100% immunity, it would be nerfed to hell and back.

So why is speed tanking any different? Speed (extreme speed, speeds over 2k/sec) should be the realm of frigs, interceptors and dictors (and the Vagabond/Stabber, which have specific speed bonuses for those ships). Everything else- Cruisers, BCs, BS- I don't see how it's game breaking to limit them to a T2 MWD. 1200-1300m/sec for a BC isn't too slow. Around 2km/sec for Cruisers isn't too slow.

I think that a typical cruiser with a T2 MWD and a HG snake implant set and gang bonuses is *plenty* fast. That is what I think is reasonable. You can still get way over 4-5k/sec just with that. With a regular cruiser. 40km/sec w/ an inty with rigs and speed mods is just silly. As are 10km/sec command ships. You actually think that's ok?

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